Cyber Work Hacks #50 - Tommy Gober on what a Network+ boot camp is like

[00:00:00] Chris Sienko: Today on Cyberwork Hacks, InfoSec Bootcamp Instructor Tommy Gober takes us on a tour of one of his specialties. The CompTIA Network plus Bootcamp.

[00:00:08] Tommy Gober: You're not going to be belittled. You're not going to be made to feel like you should already know it. If you knew it, you wouldn't be in the bootcamp. it's a comfortable place to learn

[00:00:16] Chris Sienko: Now, if you've been on the fence about bootcamp learning versus self-study or traditional school, Tommy tells you what you'll learn in our five day net plus bootcamp.

[00:00:24] Tommy Gober: structurally where they fall on any one particular day is really governed by the learning community that we develop in these classes. What sort of things are we really needing to, to focus on? And then what things can we. Maybe hit on touch on lighter because a lot of folks tend to have maybe some inkling of exposure to a concept already.

[00:00:43] Chris Sienko: He'll give you his tips for taking the net plus exam and told me about how the in-person experience often covers more than one type of networking.

[00:00:52] Tommy Gober: I have. Left there and people stay in the in the training room or they go meet in the lobby i'll grab some dinner and when I come out They're still hanging out [00:01:00] still talking networking and and uh, and and socially networking with one another too we provide these face to face trainings is that really get a sense of Who else is out there in the industry, um, that you can work alongside.

[00:01:14] Chris Sienko: So peek in on the network plus bootcamp today on cyber work hacks.

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[00:02:06] Chris Sienko: Now let's get the show started

[00:02:12] Chris Sienko: Welcome to a new episode of cyber work hacks. The purpose of this spinoff of our popular cyber work podcast is to take a single fundamental question and give you a quick, clear and actionable solution or a new insight in how to use InfoSec products and training. To achieve your work and career goals, which is what we're doing today.

[00:02:30] Chris Sienko: Um, I guess Tommy Gobert is an InfoSec instructor and Jermaine today's topic. He is also our bootcamp instructor for one of CompTIA's excellent entry level networking exams, the Network Plus. So for today's cyber work hack. Uh, Tommy is going to take us on a guided tour of what it's like to take an InfoSec certification bootcamp.

[00:02:48] Chris Sienko: And who better to tell us that than Tommy Gober. So thanks for joining us today, Tommy.

[00:02:52] Tommy Gober: Hey, Chris, thanks for having me back.

[00:02:53] Chris Sienko: My pleasure. Uh, Tommy, so to get everyone on the same page here, can you briefly explain the differences, [00:03:00] uh, in bootcamp training for a certification exam, which is what you do, versus some of the other common approaches, specifically in academic training?

[00:03:06] Chris Sienko: Degree or a course of self study or even these new immersives.

[00:03:10] Tommy Gober: This one is, uh, much more intense. Um, I like to say it's drinking from the fire hose whenever you're doing through one of these bootcamps, but, um, the, the, the real difference is it's not drug out the way that it might be for a, uh, for a college class, um, taking up a full semester. We can cover this all in a very full week.

[00:03:32] Tommy Gober: We can cover it in a and not stretch it out, um, over an entire semester. Um, If you're doing self study, there's a lot of ways that that can be beneficial, but you set the pacing of that. a lot of times folks will intend on self studying just. Get themselves to do it because not all of the topics are necessarily Fun in depth exciting topics that really motivate you and so it can be [00:04:00] really really Boring on your own with nobody to just to ask clarifying questions with or anything like that So with a boot camp you can ask questions.

[00:04:10] Tommy Gober: I encourage my participants. Please ask questions Otherwise, i'm just talking to a screen, you know, and and we can create a whole You Uh, community of learners whenever we're doing that, of course, that's if we're doing it online. If we're doing it face to face with an in person boot camp, which is also a great way to do these, then you definitely have this motivated team of essentially strangers. That you hate maybe have not met before, but you're all got the same goal in mind. And so it's a great motivating, motivating factor. Um, keeping everyone moving ahead, um, asking clarifying questions, um, exploring understandings. And when we do a face to face bootcamp, it is, um, it is a lot of fun because we're all kind of on the same page where we're cracking nerdy networking jokes as we're doing these, [00:05:00] and we're just having a lot of fun.

[00:05:02] Tommy Gober: Uh, learning and exploring the content together.

[00:05:04] Chris Sienko: Well, based on a previous hack that you did, I'm guessing a one 27. is it comes up regularly, right?

[00:05:11] Tommy Gober: The local host address is definitely part of our nerd humor.

[00:05:14] Chris Sienko: Excellent. So, well, let's talk about that. So the communication in a bootcamp, like you said, uh, you do a lot of, um, have a lot of in person people and pre COVID we mostly thought of bootcamps as a hundred percent in person, you do a site, you lock yourself in a hotel conference center, sweat it out together multiple days.

[00:05:31] Chris Sienko: Uh, so these days, uh, bootcamps are more flexible and they have remote learning in conjunction with in person attendees. So I'm guessing almost all of them have. Some of the other, um, and I, I wanted to ask about how these classes managed to retain that type of close camaraderie and communication during the class, especially if you're remoting in.

[00:05:51] Chris Sienko: Do you still have the ability to sort of jump into the conversation with people in the room?

[00:05:54] Tommy Gober: Yeah, we, we do have, um, some hybrid classes. We also have fully [00:06:00] in person and we have fully remote. Um, there are all three different kind of modalities with that. When you are, uh, engaging online, you can ask questions. You can come off of mute, ask a question. Um, And, you know, I'll make it a point to, to try and weave the two together.

[00:06:16] Tommy Gober: If I have a hybrid class, um, if a, if a question comes out on the, on the computer screen, I will, uh, read it out to the, to the rest of the class, because in person, you can't see my screen. Um, if, if you're online, you may not hear the question that was asked from the back of the room. And so I will repeat those questions.

[00:06:35] Tommy Gober: A so that you can hear it, but also so that it's to make sure I'm understanding what's being asked. And then I'll provide that kind of input. Um, but whenever we're, uh, in an, if it's, if it's fully online or fully, um, uh, in person, um, whenever we have those kind of, um, setups, just naturally, when you get a group of, of humans together, we're going [00:07:00] to have some, we're going to create some, you know, there's gonna be some misunderstandings.

[00:07:06] Tommy Gober: There's gonna be some slip ups. There's going to be some emergence of some kind of inside jokes throughout the time. And I really like to, to harness that and kind of make that the identity. Of the group of some, uh, you know, things, whenever I screwed screwed up the screen share, whenever I did this or that. And so we have, uh, we have some fun with that. And like I said, it's a, it's a group of motivated individuals. You're all learning together. And like you said, we might be sequestered in a, in a hotel room for a, for a week together, and that can create some real great learning opportunities beyond just. the typical, uh, bootcamp schedule, um, which nominally goes from, you know, in my classes, I go from about 8 30 AM until 4 30 PM. Um, if you're at a hotel because you're motivated with other motivated learners,

[00:07:53] Tommy Gober: I have. Left there and people stay in the in the training room or they go meet in the lobby

[00:07:58] Tommy Gober: You know, maybe happy hour [00:08:00] something's going on and then

[00:08:02] Tommy Gober: i'll grab some dinner and when I come out They're still hanging out still talking networking and and uh, and and socially networking with one another too

[00:08:09] Tommy Gober: and growing that way so that's another great thing that infosec does when

[00:08:13] Tommy Gober: we provide these face to face trainings is that really get a sense of Who else is out there in the industry, um, that you can work alongside.

[00:08:23] Chris Sienko: When you talk about self paced learning and, and how you set your own pace and how that, that can be its strength, but also it's, it's challenged. I think when we think about, you know, how to sort of knuckle down with self paced, it's usually it will put, put your phone away or, or, you know, uh, turn the TV off or, you know, whatever.

[00:08:40] Chris Sienko: Um, and that can help and it'll definitely get you into some degree of flow state, but boy, there's nothing quite like being in a place where there's nothing else. That's being asked of you then to do this thing and to learn this thing inside and out. It, you know, there, you know, there's more and more studies about this, but like it completely changes the way your, your sort of brain activates it's, it's sort [00:09:00] of learning neurons.

[00:09:01] Chris Sienko: And so I think that's, that's so crucial. And I'm glad you mentioned also the sort of after hours group study, because that's always mentioned in the curriculum. So, uh, speaking to the curriculum, how many consecutive days is the network plus exam? And could you give our listeners. A sense of like how much or what sort of what what domains are being focused on on each day?

[00:09:22] Chris Sienko: What where's where is the sort of like emphases? Coming, uh, on a daily basis.

[00:09:26] Tommy Gober: So the structure generally is, uh, it's five days and, um, it's actually about four and a half days of instruction that we do. And, uh, the, the last half. Of that fifth day is, uh, if we're doing an in person is reserved for, for testing. Um, so if we're doing an in person, uh, generally InfoSec can provide testing services right there on, on the spot. If it's doing it online, um, that afternoon is freed up so that if you're really motivated, you can go ahead and schedule the exam. Uh, right [00:10:00] then and there with my, um, with my generally what I'm doing is I cover the, uh, the very, very basics of the OSI networking model on day one. And I also invest time in exploring how does binary work? Um, base two number systems. We all know how to count base 10. That's that's your quote, unquote, normal way of counting. But base two is very, very important in networking, particularly when it comes up with. And so we talked about that and we also, uh, discuss, um, hex decimal to just as a, as a natural flow, uh, are tying into that. Um, I, I spend that time, uh, I invest that time with binary so that we can, whenever we get into subnetting, usually on, uh, day two, um, or day three, depending on where we're at, uh, we'll get into, um, you know, how that works. makes sense. And, and where does that, where does that number theory apply to what we're doing? [00:11:00] from there we move into, uh, basic networking, uh, hardware, different protocols, the way that they structure, uh, are structured in their exchanges. Uh, port numbers that we've got different, um, security concepts, knowledge that way. We talk about VPNs. Some cloud, uh, concepts get woven in as well. And then, um, all of this kind of overseen with this, um, concept of troubleshooting. So those are some of the different, um, things that we do on each of those days. Um,

[00:11:31] Tommy Gober: structurally where they fall on any one particular day is really governed by

[00:11:36] Tommy Gober: the, the community,

[00:11:37] Tommy Gober: the learning community that we develop in these classes.

[00:11:39] Tommy Gober: Um, where are questions coming up? Uh,

[00:11:42] Tommy Gober: what sort of things are we really needing to, to focus on? And then what things can we. Maybe hit on touch on lighter because a lot of folks tend to have maybe some inkling of exposure to a concept already.

[00:11:54] Chris Sienko: Excellent. Now you mentioned on the second half of the [00:12:00] fifth day that that's reserved for exam taking time. Uh, what, what percentage would you say of your students opt to go right from the bootcamp and then go right in and take the, take the exam during the bootcamp? And do you recommend that specifically, or do you think that sort of letting them marinate in the ideas for a couple of days, Is, is better.

[00:12:22] Chris Sienko: What, what's, what, what do you, what would you say personally?

[00:12:25] Tommy Gober: It's it. There are there are two camps of two schools of thoughts with this. Um, if if we are doing it face to face, the test. Equipment is there in the back of the room, looming over the whole week. We know that it's coming on Friday afternoon. Um, that is, is, um, I think that we do. So if you're doing an in person training, if that's something that you want to opt for, uh, and to take that test right then.

[00:12:55] Tommy Gober: And so before you even, uh, depart the hotel. Um, to, you know, [00:13:00] get back on the road or go hop on a plane somewhere. If that's, uh, what you want to do, you can certainly do that. If you would rather have the test voucher and take it at your leisure, uh, that's also afforded to you as well. A lot of folks opt for taking the test face to face. I've also had, this is always fun and interesting whenever it comes down, because a lot of people are kind of like, that we'll have a hybrid class. Where we've got people that are in in person training, uh, in some major metro area. And then we will also have some online learners and they're like, Hey, you guys are testing on Friday. Can I come down and test too? And it's like, well, if we have the capacity for it, sure. And so these folks will will show up on Friday. They'll be like, who's this? They're like, oh, i've been in here the whole time. You've heard my voice. And so they're part of that learning community, but they're kind of a faceless member of that learning community.

[00:13:51] Tommy Gober: We've had that, uh, show up too. Uh, we, if we do it online, my, my go to [00:14:00] answer for when should I test is my go to answer is Monday or Tuesday next week. spend this week learning, absorbing, and I tell folks, put yourself in sponge mode and just soak up all the information and knowledge that you can this week. That way it gives you the weekend to Kind of self reflect review and also just have some downtime, just decompress, but don't wait until too far into the next week. You want to test on Monday or Tuesday next week so that work's not getting in the way. Life's not derailing you. Um, know, you don't want any of that. Stuff squeezing the knowledge that, you know, that hard found knowledge out of your, uh, out of your brain.

[00:14:39] Chris Sienko: Yeah, your, your low key weekend is not going to necessarily change like what's going on in your head as much as a whole day of

[00:14:47] Tommy Gober: Monday.

[00:14:48] Chris Sienko: figuring out your OKRs or your other, you know, long term plans or what have you. So,

[00:14:52] Tommy Gober: Yeah. Your s reports

[00:14:54] Chris Sienko: yeah, precisely. So, uh, as we wrap up today, Tommy, I want to just have you, uh, give your [00:15:00] advice for people who are still maybe on the fence about, you Whether they want to do a, a bootcamp to take the net plus, uh, what do you think they should be thinking about in terms of pros and cons?

[00:15:08] Chris Sienko: You

[00:15:09] Tommy Gober: Yeah. So the, the pros are, like I said, you, you're, you're, you join this learning community. Um, you are in a, um, a place where I want you to feel comfortable asking questions, on the job. Sometimes you might feel like I should know this, but I don't know why I don't know what this thing is that.

[00:15:30] Tommy Gober: That's why you're here. Nobody here knows everything. And I'll even I'll even admit it to that. We're recording this. I don't know everything. Shock. Yeah. Right. It's like, we're here to learn. People will ask questions. I'm like, you know what? Nobody's ever asked that. I don't know. And then someone will go and find out, share.

[00:15:50] Tommy Gober: And I was like, Oh, that makes sense. And I can maybe offer an explanation of why. if it, if it ties in with something else, but we're there to learn, it's a learning community. [00:16:00] And so if you're wanting to learn and you're wanting to put this certification, uh, you know, behind you, get it under your belt, check that box, uh, have that resume entry, come to a bootcamp.

[00:16:11] Tommy Gober: You're, you're, you're not going to be, uh, you know, thrown off and at the deep end and you have to, you know, Figure it out for yourself. Um, everyone's there to learn and chances are you have some knowledge that you can already build on for this. So, uh, give it a shot. Um, you know, a lot of people that come to our bootcamp say, well, I've been trying to study on my own. They just don't, or I was supposed to do this, or maybe I had this certification 10 years ago. I've had some of those to come to the bootcamp.

[00:16:41] Tommy Gober: You're not going to be belittled. You're not going to be made to feel like you should already know it. If you knew it, you wouldn't be in the bootcamp. it's a comfortable place to learn

[00:16:49] Tommy Gober: and. And grow your knowledge.

[00:16:51] Chris Sienko: make me want to sign up myself here. If only I knew anything. All right. Well, Tommy Gober, thank you for this entertaining look at our network plus, uh, bootcamp. It was really a lot of fun. I appreciate it.

[00:16:59] Tommy Gober: [00:17:00] Thanks, man.

[00:17:00] Chris Sienko: Uh, and thank you all for watching this cyber attack. If you enjoyed it, share it with someone, colleague, a forum, social media account, but best of all, Word of mouth recommendations are how shows like this grow their audience and make sure you subscribe to our podcast.

[00:17:13] Chris Sienko: If you go to YouTube or your podcatcher of choice and you type in cyber work info sec, you'll find this. We pop right up at the top there. And if you have any questions that are topics that you want us to cover, drop them in the comments. I'm reading them all the time. You guys have great comments for us and I appreciate that.

[00:17:27] Chris Sienko: Until next time, this is Chris Senko wishing you happy learning.